Inside The Spy Shop in Leeds that sells tracking devices and hidden cameras to the general public

That was the unnerving mantra repeated by the 84-year-old owner of The Spy Shop in Leeds, as he spoke in the back office of his store on Kirkstall Road.

Moral questions abounded during my one hour conversation with Dave Allen and his son Nigel, who have sold hidden cameras, tracking devices and covert recording equipment to police, councils, the Ministry of Defence, journalists and just about anyone who has walked through their doors in the last 30-plus years.

"We don’t ask questions”, Dave said.

“We just sell to anyone. Whatever they do with it is totally up to them.”

With that though means that equipment – all legal in its own right, they emphasise – could have been sold to those with criminal intentions.

The pair said that one piece of equipment that they had sold was found at the Beeston home of one of the 7/7 bombers.

So how do they square this?

Nigel said: “We’re not selling anything illegal.”

Dave added: “We just stay in the shadows.”

The pair also pointed to the frequent good that their equipment is used for, such as councils tracking fly-tippers, police chasing drug dealers, people monitoring their parents in care homes and even abroad, where wildlife campaigners use the devices to track poachers.

Going back, Dave said that he had worked in all variety of fields but he had come to the end of his tether in a “jet setting” role in the printing business in the late 1980s, when he decided to pack it in. It was while “kicking my heels up” that he came across a newspaper article about the rise of surveillance in the UK with the headline ‘The Bugging of Britain’ and decided to cash in.

At first working from a spare room in his home in 1989 selling comparatively primitive equipment to what’s available today, Dave went on to open shop in Pudsey before setting up at the current spot on Kirkstall Road 25 years ago with Nigel, who joined the family business in 1992 after working as a joiner.

The frontage of the shop openly advertises the tracking devices and surveillance equipment, while the waiting room through the front door features a skeleton model placed on a chair, which together turns many a head of those walking past.

After being buzzed through and sitting down with the duo in the backroom, which naturally features live footage of the entire building, we talked about what type of people use the equipment.

Dave said that, from the early days, a good amount of their clientele had been “paranoid” people who want to know what their partners are up to.

He said: “It’s husbands who don’t trust their wives or wives who don’t trust their husbands.

"Then you’ve got to alleviate it and get a listening device or recording device but back then it was all very basic. Nowadays technology has changed out of all proportion. What you see here isn’t what you get.”

Among the items on display included picture frames and charger plugs with hidden cameras, car keys with recording devices and magnetic trackers.

Dave told me that they didn’t do any vetting of customers coming through the doors asking for the equipment. After asking whether he was concerned what the equipment was used for, he responded: “No. Not after all these years.”

What if they’re using it illegally?

"That’s their problem.

“The grey area’s got [nothing] to do with us. It’s their responsibility and not ours.

"We’ve been around too long and we know quite a lot of connections in the good and the bad areas. We don’t ask. We don’t keep records. Only certain ones.”

Having covered many a court case involving stalkers I couldn’t help but feel significant unease at the equipment being sold so readily.

Nigel added: “At the end of the day it’s not just about doing naughty things like stalking or whatever else. They’re used for good as well. You could put that in your car so if it gets pinched you can go straight to finding out where it is.”

He went on to talk about one customer whose Audi was stolen just weeks after buying the tracker.

One form of good that the equipment has helped with was when it was used by the BBC in a Panorama episode to uncover abuse in care homes, Dave said.

“They help people”, Dave added.

“Help with the paranoia.

"Our equipment, you see, either proves what they think is going on and they’re ahead of the game. Or it gives them peace of mind because they find out that they’re not doing anything that they thought.

"Knowledge is power.”