Sponsored by
Leeds United sceptics to quick to write off team and chances - Lorimer
Tom Lees turns to celebrate after scoring the second goal for Leeds United against Hull City.
Leeds United’s defeat to Southampton on the first day of the season was a miserable result, no doubt about that. But I felt at the time that the rush to judgement was too quick and too aggressive. How much can you read into one match?
Since then we’ve seen a game against Middlesbrough, which I’m sure Leeds would have won with 11 players, and a classy hammering of Hull City. Call me deluded, but I don’t see how that constitutes a crisis. It’s not been the perfect start but we’ve all seen worse, and so has the Championship since the season started.
The sheer amount of negativity in Leeds after that loss to Southampton amazed me. Maybe it was down to lingering disappointment from our failure to qualify for the play-offs last season, but it seemed to me that certain people were looking to turn on the club at the first opportunity.
As unacceptable as the performance at St Mary’s was, Southampton won’t be a flash in the pan. Their 5-2 win at Ipswich Town makes me think that they’ll stick around in the top six. And anyone criticising United’s display on the south coast has to admit that the performance against Hull was excellent. It’ll take a few more weeks and a few more games to know which of those results was a proper reflection of Simon Grayson’s team.
Contention
I’m not asking people to judge the squad at the end of the season. I’m asking them to judge the squad once they’ve properly settled into their campaign. If one shocking result in the first fortnight rules a club out of contention then Ipswich have no chance of promotion and neither do Leicester City. These are early days – far too early, in my opinion, for protests and demonstrations.
It’s important for the fans to realise that I do appreciate the standards they expect of Leeds United. When all’s said and done, a football club’s progress and success is gauged by what they do on that green rectangle in the middle of the stadium. It’s only naturally that supporters want their team to be as strong as possible.
And, of course, they want promotion back to the Premier League. We all do, and Ken Bates most of all. I’ve heard it said that he’s happy to hover in the Championship with big crowds and steady income, but that’s a load of rubbish. No-one wants to get to the Premier League more than him, and I say that having spoken to him about it many times.
The reality is this – there’s a sensible way to chase promotion and a mad way. The mad way is what Leicester are doing: spend millions after millions and hope that the team gels together instantly and gets you out of the league straight away. They might have enough money to go down that path and swallow the cost if they don’t go up, but the vast majority of Championship clubs would be risking their future by doing that.
The sensible way is to build a competitive team within your means and strike a balance between the security of the club and the potential of the squad. If any set of supporters in the country should understand that, surely it’s ours. ‘Doing a Leeds’ is still a phrase used in football circles and I’ve not forgotten what went on here in our darkest days.
Some fans seem to be of the opinion that the Ridsdale era is used as an excuse for not spending money. That’s simply not true. Money has been spent on the side and is being spent on the side. The signing of Andy Keogh – a striker who, by the way, we shouldn’t have sold in the first place – showed that cash is available to recruit players of good repute.
What the board don’t want to do is put up money that isn’t there to be spent. There’s a huge difference between saving money you could invest and spending money you can’t afford. It’s all about being responsible and making sure that, whatever else happens, we never go back to the lows of spending Tuesday nights in Hereford.
As for the protests against the chairman last weekend, I thought they were totally wrong. They paid no attention to fact that in six and a bit years he’s turned us into one of the best-run clubs in the country – a club who make a profit each year and don’t have any debt. I know it’s difficult for the supporters to get excited about that, and keeping the club secure and stable is the board’s job at the end of the day, but security matters.
Minority
Of the fans I talk to, most are pretty appreciative of what’s gone on since we went into administration in 2007. I’d be lying if I said they were happy about everything, and let’s not kid ourselves that we’re pleasing all of the people all of the time, but I’m firmly of the view that the supporters initiating these protests against the chairman are in a minority.
It doesn’t help the club and it doesn’t help the team. Take it from me, the players and the coaching staff will be well aware of everything that’s going on and everything that’s being said.
For me it’s all a bit unnecessary and a swell of feeling that’s come before a ball’s really been kicked. How many of the crowd walked out of Elland Road on Tuesday night thinking that Leeds are not capable of competing in the Championship? Very few would be my guess.
As I said, too many people turned too quickly and decided to rule us out of the running on the evidence of one match.
What disappointed me more than anything was the suggestion before Tuesday that if we lost to Hull we might finish August with no points! That’s not the Leeds United spirit I know. It’s defeatist talk and the performance against Hull was the perfect antidote at the right time.
Can we beat West Ham United on Sunday? Or course we bloody well can! And Ipswich too.
If there’s negativity out there then I’m not prepared to share in it, and neither will the club. The jump to criticise has been needlessly premature.
Email to a friend
Print this page
Looking for...
Featured advertisers
Jobs
Search for a job
Motors
Search for a car
Property
Search for a house
Weather for Leeds
Saturday 26 May 2012
Today
Sunny
Temperature: 8 C to 21 C
Wind Speed: 17 mph
Wind direction: East
Tomorrow
Sunny
Temperature: 9 C to 22 C
Wind Speed: 13 mph
Wind direction: East
Comments
There are 60 comments to this article
Page 1 of 4
Johnno39
Wednesday, August 31, 2011 at 03:14 PMPoints speak louder than words and we are barely whispering!
bja
Wednesday, August 31, 2011 at 09:38 AMsorry we will miss out again this year the writtings on the wall already, not even the play offs...... waste of time and money......
OzTyke
Tuesday, August 23, 2011 at 01:30 AMSeeing as you brought it up, who was Astor, when was the debt discovered, what was it for in the first place, how on Earth was it missed initially when calculating the CVA percenatges (Ken didn't have the numbers), why was it subsequently waived (it wasn't for a couple of hundred quid, it was 18 MILLION!), was it coincidental that the newly-discovered debt of 18 million was JUST enough to give Bates the exect percentage required, did our Chairman have any connection to Astor, why did Astor agree to waive on condition that Bates' CVA was the one accepted, was the club taken deliberately into bankruptcy, how many different companies has the club now been broken up into, does our chairman have any ownership of Elland Rd and Thorp Arch, for which the football club pays exhorbitant rents? Our great club had a golden, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be "purchased" for nothing, ridden into the ground, all debts extinguished and a fresh new start. Tragically this chance was seized by Ken Bates. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish there had been some sort of organisation via which fans could have owned and operated our own club along the lines of the Barcelona model, which Liverpool fans have aspired to for some time.
interm'landrover
Sunday, August 21, 2011 at 08:14 PMRichardsullivan22,you have too much time on your hands but your detailed analysis and persuasive dialogue have convinced me your opinion and reasoning are soundly based and flawlessly presented.Based on recent history we have every reason to have a healthy scepticism for KB&SG regarding investment in quality recruitment.
richardsullivan222
Saturday, August 20, 2011 at 08:14 AMComment 8, I've got plenty of cash and I hate Ken Bates and his vile, inhuman views about anything and everything. The sooner he's dead the better! I'd be saying that if he were inflicting himself on any other club. Comment 10, I'd like to point out that you are mistaken, our investment isn't zero. We paid a fee for Lonerghan and loan wages cost. But, we have a smaller squad now and got much more for Kaspar than we paid for Lonerghan. So our investment over the summer is actually a minus figure. Comment 13, it was Sackwell's fault we were relegated to Div 3 - but Bates should have sacked him earlier. If Wise had had the squad from the summer they'd have been fitter for a start. It's shameful that we were in the 3rd, are a borrowing club, won't extend contracts when we can afford to, and have spent so long out of the Prem. BurleySteve and others, we cannot compete, as I think you mean it. Clubs with parachute payments (if they are not broke) have resources that dwarf ours. We have to do it by building carefully with young players and careful signings. Larry does have half an idea here - it was a no brainer that Clayton was a good young player but it was us who got him. And I hope he genuinely feels that Lees and White are ready and wasn't panicking. Maybe we're on the right road now... sign Keogh, keep the young players we've got and we're not far off a team that can go up and stay up - if we get those midfielders and a cover striker.
richardsullivan222
Saturday, August 20, 2011 at 08:02 AMIf that's not clear to some, lose more than 5-7 games you don't get automatic promotion, lose more than 12 no playoffs. I think that this year a lot of teams will take points from each other and the totals needed to reach the playoffs won't be as high as usual. Also, at the other end, if 1 or 2 truly rotten teams emerge (they usually do) then the teams just above may need higher than usual records to stay up. However those things go, a team needs to lose as few games as possible - losing the first 2 after taking to the field with obvious and avoidable (yes they were) weaknesses, and the clownish behaviour of the summer was bound to enrage fans. Disgraceful shambles since the last transfer window if you ask me - it only looks better than it was because bringing Naylor back at the end stopped the on-the-pitch rot for a few games. Still, maybe it's just that Larry has had a bad patch. Maybe we'll be lucky with finding a new midfielder, maybe we've 1 or 2 more kids ready, maybe Larry has now found his feet as a promotion-chasing Championship manager after. Maybe. We'll see. In the meantime we are in danger, and I'm surprised if PL can't see that.
richardsullivan222
Saturday, August 20, 2011 at 07:50 AMIt's losing our first two games that makes people think we've damaged our chances of promotion. And it's not just what happened last year, it's the terrible moves in the summer. Agree Southampton are good - I said they would be - but all that's happened now is 1 good win against a mediocre team, because the manager seems to have found a defence (maybe by reading the comments of negativists like me, saying stick O'Dea in the middle, and the others advocating for White and Lees) and accepted that we needed a striker (maybe for the same reason, maybe on Bates' orders) and got Keogh in. Good start. And maybe I'm wrong, maybe Grayson is a genius manager who is building a team, maybe he had Lees and White in mind (no way - Lees would have played RB in the reserves and we wouldn't have been trialling LBs) and it's coming together. We'll see. As it stands, I won't bother making all the usual arguments. I will point out that injuries to players are always a risk in football, and ask just these 2 questions: 1. What happens if Clayton breaks a leg tomorrow? 2. Whose fault would it be that we have no-one to bring in? Much more to do yet to make up for the summer as far as I'm concerned - it's all up in the air until we find 2 (more) competent midfielders.
Leodisthewhite
Friday, August 19, 2011 at 08:59 PMNeil1964 I have not said Bates is a great bloke. You quote the price of season tickets from a fan website I have shown that the match day prices prove we are not the most expensive club to watch for the majority. Many say they are not able to afford a season ticket and have to pay on a match by match basis so is that not the more reasonable figure to use? I would tend to accept Lorimers point of view to the majority who post on here. Why? for the simple reason that Lorimer actually has experience in the world of professional football whereas the majority if not all who post on here do not have a clue as to what goes on in the world of professional football. superwhite First of all prove verifiable evidence that Bates milks the club not guesses or personal beliefs but actual facts with links. Second Ken Bates OWNS Leeds United and as the owner of the business all profits actually belong to him, not the club, not the supporters but to Ken Bates. Regardless of what you may think or feel the money you pay to watch the games does not buy you a share of the club or entitles you to a say in where it is spent. We let players go on free transfers because they are out of contract and the money that they or their agents want the club is not willing to pay. Are we the last in the country to sign players? deals are been reported all the time. Some of the players we have signed are out of contract or cast offs as you call them. If they are cast offs then why are you worried about the players that have gone on free transfers as they are by your definition cast offs. I agree about why wasn't Becchios operation earlier but the medical staff at Leeds advised the management that a period of rest would solve the problem. They were wrong as medical people sometimes are but you can't blame Bates or Grayson for that. They employ experts if the experts get it wrong then maybe they should be removed. You say we are only looking to sign players after the fans have shown their feelings, again provide evidence that this is the case actual facts. We have no idea what is going on behind the scenes in the attempt to sign new players. We may have made numerous offers that have been rejected. We may have had players saying they do not want to come to us for all manner of reasons not just money but also family. Bowyer decided against us because he did not want to bring his young family north Lonergan has said in an interview the reason he took so long to sign was because of his family. Middlesboro attracted a lot of quality players at the beginning of last season what good did it do them. Leicester have attracted a lot of quality players but they have lost their first two home games. Gradel was regarded as a reject by Leicester but I bet they would gladly have him back now. Did not Fabregas sign within a few days of playing his first game for Barcelona sometimes it happens. Grayson may well have been chasing Keogh for weeks but only got him on Monday we just don't know. Chris75 Wilko wanted to distance himself from the Revie era because he felt it put too much pressure on the players that they could not handle. The chairman did not call the fans morons just a small section of them. Just as we had morons who invaded the pitch after the Ipswich game and caused trouble after the Bournemouth game but for a change the chairman and owner decided to speak out. As I have said before if you get Bates out who are you going to replace him with who else do you propose we get as a new owner and don't say that is Bates problem you want him out.
superwhite
Friday, August 19, 2011 at 07:51 PMDeal with facts Lorimer not opinions. What does Bates milk from the club each year through the various back doors, we earn more money than most every other club in the Division, why dont we spend money like others, why do we let good players go on free transfers, why are we the last in the country to sign players and why cast offs, why was Bechio's hamstring operated on sooner, why are we only looking to sign players after the fans show their feelings, why does the Chairman call the fans morons, why can't we match other teams when attracting quality players, why are we signing players and putting them on the pitch 24 hours later. These are matters the fans are protesting against, not just the teams performance, they just aren't good enough but thats what it is and we shall suffer for a while yet.
Neil1964
Friday, August 19, 2011 at 07:30 PMleodiswhite. I thought it was you comparing ticket prices to prove what a great bloke Bates is. Just proved you wrong. Never mind. I am not in the Bates out brigade but a realist.When 7 first teamers leave to be replaced by 4 new players I think it quite reasonable to ask questions, not get sucked into Peter Lorimers , and yours,love in for his paymaster.
chris75
Friday, August 19, 2011 at 07:17 PMPoints to pick up on....Keogh is only at leeds on loan........most expensive tickets outside premier league to watch loanees and freebies.....remember the last time leeds were out of the top flight it took serious investment to gain promotion,the slogan being Sh@t or bust promotions a must under sgt wilko. Lorimer is mis-guided and reflects his own self interest under Bates.You are out of touch with the majority of supporters and have nailed your colours to bates mast.Irrespective of whether we win every gme under bates i want him out.Try defending them morons who kept leeds affloat whilst bates was schemeing a way of ripping off hardcore fans for his own benefit.Lorimer although a good player often gets his facts wrong and has little respect from me anymoreNo wonder wilko wanted to distance himself from the revie generation to move the club forward.Bates patronises and manipultes the old 'legends' to appease the supporters however if lorimer were to speak out he would be cast aside just as peter osgood was at chelsea.BATES OUT
Leodisthewhite
Friday, August 19, 2011 at 07:12 PMNeil1964 What you actually mean is that it does not support your anti Bates stance. The majority of football fans are not season ticket holders so comparing season ticket prices is meaningless. How many away games are covered by a season ticket answer non. As I said in an earlier thread when Leeds increased the admission prices to buy back John Charles which the fans had demanded some were in uproar. They wanted the player but felt others should pay for him. All I hear from those who want Bates out is that they want players bought but cheaper prices. We have had this once before from Risdale. I am begin to think that on the side Risdale used to run a school on how to run a football club and a number of our fans attended this. I keep asking from the Bates out group prove some actual evidence that Bates is taking money out of the club for his benefit, evidence not beliefs, with some links then I will begin to take you seriously.
Neil1964
Friday, August 19, 2011 at 06:54 PMTry this link Leodisthewhite www.championshiptalk.com...championship-season-ticket-prices1 Pretty straight forward for me. Saw the BBC link. Difficult to compare matchday prices because of the ABC categories for each game. What I do isknow is there aint more than 2 or 3 cat C games for £20 per season. Vast majority are Cat A. at £36.!
kingbilly
Friday, August 19, 2011 at 06:52 PMpoint on ticket prices. you can travel over the pennines and watch a game every week in the premier league , and some of the tickets are cheaper than leeds, at both citeh and manure. how do you expect to attract youngsters when you are charging more than the manchester buccaneers. its £10 at old trafford for a child to sit anywhere in the ground. get em young and you have them for life. how many years has the upper tier of the east stand been empty?
kingbilly
Friday, August 19, 2011 at 06:42 PMPeter i have great respect for you. fantastic memories "hot shot lorimer" i remember chanting 90 miles an hour. when you were about to take a freekick. some of the younger fans have no idea what it was like in those days. what a sight johnny giles knocking the ball down the wing with back spin, which you could do with the old mitre multiplex ball. I realise you have a job to do , and you have to be diplomatic, but take the time to read this article in answer to yours on square ball , heres the link. http:www.thesquareball.netleeds-united20110819peter-lorimer-column
Page 1 of 4
Your view
Please sign in to be able to comment on this story.